1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,795 Thank you for tuning in to Voices for Freedom, an anti-human trafficking 2 00:00:03,795 --> 00:00:04,754 podcast. 3 00:00:04,754 --> 00:00:07,048 We want to acknowledge that the content we discuss 4 00:00:07,048 --> 00:00:10,969 can be emotionally challenging and may evoke strong reactions. 5 00:00:10,969 --> 00:00:14,806 The stories we share often delve into tough subjects related to human 6 00:00:14,806 --> 00:00:18,435 trafficking, which may be difficult for some listeners to hear. 7 00:00:18,435 --> 00:00:20,687 Our goal is to raise awareness and promote 8 00:00:20,687 --> 00:00:24,524 understanding of the complexities surrounding human trafficking. 9 00:00:24,524 --> 00:00:27,193 Listener discretion is advised. 10 00:00:32,198 --> 00:00:35,076 Coming up on Voices for Freedom, 11 00:00:35,076 --> 00:00:37,078 an anti-trafficking podcast. 12 00:00:37,078 --> 00:00:39,456 We worked with several people that were on the streets 13 00:00:39,456 --> 00:00:44,419 that said that they had been approached by people looking for sex. 14 00:00:44,419 --> 00:00:46,171 The situation that was happening is 15 00:00:46,171 --> 00:00:49,382 you would have somebody that would come in for the Super Bowl. 16 00:00:49,382 --> 00:00:54,512 They're driving down the streets, and they're saying, “Oh that person, 17 00:00:54,512 --> 00:00:58,683 maybe I can give them 100 bucks and and take them back to my hotel room 18 00:00:58,683 --> 00:01:00,769 for an hour and then 19 00:01:00,769 --> 00:01:02,020 send them off.” 20 00:01:02,020 --> 00:01:08,151 I remember talking with one buyer during this Super Bowl time 21 00:01:08,151 --> 00:01:11,529 and his justification was, 22 00:01:11,529 --> 00:01:14,699 “That person looked like they needed money. 23 00:01:14,699 --> 00:01:17,327 I just provided them with finances.” 24 00:01:22,957 --> 00:01:25,251 Welcome to Voices for Freedom, 25 00:01:25,251 --> 00:01:28,421 an anti-human trafficking podcast brought to you 26 00:01:28,421 --> 00:01:32,967 by Operation Underground Railroad. Along with my co-host, Jessica Mass, 27 00:01:32,967 --> 00:01:34,427 I'm Matt Osborne. 28 00:01:34,427 --> 00:01:38,598 We have had so much fun over the past several weeks with different episodes. 29 00:01:38,598 --> 00:01:40,517 I know you got a chance to host some. 30 00:01:40,517 --> 00:01:44,646 And today, we're going to be talking about the Super Bowl 31 00:01:44,646 --> 00:01:48,817 and whether the Super Bowl is the largest human trafficking event in the world. 32 00:01:48,817 --> 00:01:50,777 Some say yes, some say no. 33 00:01:50,777 --> 00:01:53,321 But we're going to talk about that just for a few minutes. 34 00:01:53,321 --> 00:01:56,241 And what we're really going to focus on, though, is regardless 35 00:01:56,241 --> 00:01:59,536 of whether it is or not, what does trafficking look like? 36 00:01:59,536 --> 00:02:02,956 How do traffickers take advantage of the vulnerabilities of their victims? 37 00:02:02,956 --> 00:02:08,837 And most importantly, what is it that fuels this all around the world? 38 00:02:08,837 --> 00:02:10,672 It's the demand side. 39 00:02:10,672 --> 00:02:12,674 So Jessica, I will just ask you because, again, 40 00:02:12,674 --> 00:02:15,468 we look at some of our former partners here. We respect a couple groups. 41 00:02:15,468 --> 00:02:16,803 International Justice Mission 42 00:02:16,803 --> 00:02:20,765 asks, “Is the Super Bowl the largest human trafficking event in the world?” 43 00:02:20,765 --> 00:02:24,269 Agape International Missions has a spotlight on human trafficking. 44 00:02:24,269 --> 00:02:26,729 “Is human trafficking increased around the Super Bowl?” 45 00:02:26,729 --> 00:02:30,316 And then there's an article I saw on Yahoo News saying, “It's time to retire 46 00:02:30,316 --> 00:02:33,361 Super Bowl sex trafficking stings and myths.” 47 00:02:33,361 --> 00:02:35,780 So why don't you kick us off just if someone were to ask you 48 00:02:35,780 --> 00:02:36,906 the question, “Jessica, ... 49 00:02:36,906 --> 00:02:40,660 based on all of your experience working with victims and survivors over the years, 50 00:02:40,660 --> 00:02:45,081 is the Super Bowl the largest human trafficking event in the world? 51 00:02:45,081 --> 00:02:45,707 Yes, 52 00:02:45,707 --> 00:02:48,793 so what I would say to that is sometimes 53 00:02:48,793 --> 00:02:51,880 the debate takes away from the actual issue. 54 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:55,717 And the issue is, are there vulnerable people 55 00:02:55,717 --> 00:02:59,137 that can be exploited during these types of situations? 56 00:02:59,137 --> 00:03:04,267 And I know we're going to talk about demand later, but you look at a event, 57 00:03:04,267 --> 00:03:09,814 a large sporting event where there is a demand there. 58 00:03:09,814 --> 00:03:14,527 There's people there that want to exploit other people for sex. 59 00:03:14,527 --> 00:03:18,364 And so, when you look at the foster care system, 60 00:03:18,364 --> 00:03:21,409 for example, you have kids that are aged out of the foster care system 61 00:03:21,409 --> 00:03:25,622 that are living on the streets, that are in survival mode in general. 62 00:03:25,622 --> 00:03:27,123 And there's a lot of people 63 00:03:27,123 --> 00:03:31,294 that will exploit those vulnerabilities and use them for sex. 64 00:03:31,294 --> 00:03:35,882 You have people that are trying to provide for their children 65 00:03:35,882 --> 00:03:40,929 that are also in vulnerable situations, and people come and exploit them for sex. 66 00:03:40,929 --> 00:03:43,932 I could go into lots of different vulnerabilities 67 00:03:43,932 --> 00:03:47,101 as to why somebody might be exploited, 68 00:03:47,101 --> 00:03:54,442 but the issue is you take all these - primarily men are the demand, 69 00:03:54,442 --> 00:03:56,778 not to say that they're the only people that are 70 00:03:56,778 --> 00:03:57,987 the demand. -The vast majority. 71 00:03:57,987 --> 00:04:00,490 We have to call it for what it is and say it for what it is. 72 00:04:00,490 --> 00:04:05,662 So you have all of these men coming in for a sporting event 73 00:04:05,662 --> 00:04:09,791 and they are looking for different situations 74 00:04:09,791 --> 00:04:13,253 to exploit somebody’s vulnerability to have sex with them. 75 00:04:13,253 --> 00:04:20,677 So then you have traffickers that say, “I have all these buyers coming in. 76 00:04:20,677 --> 00:04:22,887 I want to exploit these men as well. 77 00:04:22,887 --> 00:04:26,182 I want to make sure I'm using these guys that are coming in 78 00:04:26,182 --> 00:04:29,936 for these sporting events and using these vulnerabilities 79 00:04:29,936 --> 00:04:34,107 of these people that can be sex trafficked.” 80 00:04:34,107 --> 00:04:37,944 And so, you have a trafficker that's like, “These are perfect events. 81 00:04:37,944 --> 00:04:40,613 I don't have to set this up. It's already set up. 82 00:04:40,613 --> 00:04:41,781 I've got buyers. 83 00:04:41,781 --> 00:04:44,701 I can exploit these girls with these vulnerabilities.” 84 00:04:44,701 --> 00:04:48,621 And the trafficker is like, “I'm just going to bring these together, 85 00:04:48,621 --> 00:04:50,581 and I'm going to profit off of everyone.” 86 00:04:50,581 --> 00:04:51,457 Yeah, absolutely. 87 00:04:51,457 --> 00:04:53,584 And again, what I always say when someone asks me 88 00:04:53,584 --> 00:04:56,004 because I'm probably have been guilty of saying, 89 00:04:56,004 --> 00:04:58,131 “And the Super Bowl is the largest anti, you know, 90 00:04:58,131 --> 00:04:59,757 large human trafficking event in the world.” 91 00:04:59,757 --> 00:05:01,009 And we're going to talk in the next segment 92 00:05:01,009 --> 00:05:03,886 about some of the outreach you've done during, you know, Super Bowl times. 93 00:05:03,886 --> 00:05:08,725 But what I say is, look, it's just this percentage of men who would exploit. 94 00:05:08,725 --> 00:05:12,645 But when you bring together this amount of men, right, at a Super Bowl 95 00:05:12,645 --> 00:05:14,689 or a World Cup or a big sporting event, 96 00:05:14,689 --> 00:05:17,275 chances are there will be more demand there. 97 00:05:17,275 --> 00:05:21,654 And I will tell you that in the run up to this most recent Las Vegas Super Bowl, 98 00:05:21,654 --> 00:05:26,576 I saw a lot of news stories on ramping up and federal task forces and Homeland 99 00:05:26,576 --> 00:05:31,039 Security taking the lead with the FBI, with Clark County, with Las Vegas police. 100 00:05:31,039 --> 00:05:34,584 They certainly expected a lot of human trafficking cases. 101 00:05:34,584 --> 00:05:37,879 I'm sure I’ve missed something, but I have not found any actual news 102 00:05:37,879 --> 00:05:40,048 stories of human trafficking arrests. 103 00:05:40,048 --> 00:05:44,385 The one arrest I saw was two clowns running on to the field 104 00:05:44,385 --> 00:05:45,762 during the game. They were arrested. 105 00:05:45,762 --> 00:05:49,182 So when you look at Las Vegas Super Bowl arrests, that's what comes up. 106 00:05:49,182 --> 00:05:50,725 But Agape International Missions, 107 00:05:50,725 --> 00:05:53,394 one of our former partners, we love them. They do amazing work. 108 00:05:53,394 --> 00:05:56,606 They actually put together some tallies over the past few years. 109 00:05:56,606 --> 00:05:57,690 So if you allow me to read here. 110 00:05:57,690 --> 00:06:00,860 So in 2023 - they have no stats yet on 2024, 111 00:06:00,860 --> 00:06:04,864 Las Vegas. 2023: Glendale, Arizona, 112 00:06:04,864 --> 00:06:07,450 they had the Phoenix Police Department out, 113 00:06:07,450 --> 00:06:11,329 and they had 48 felony and 300 misdemeanor arrests 114 00:06:11,329 --> 00:06:14,582 during a crackdown on human trafficking and sex trafficking. 115 00:06:14,582 --> 00:06:18,419 Five minors and one adult victim were removed from crime scenes. 116 00:06:18,419 --> 00:06:21,047 So you do have some, right, were arrests. 117 00:06:21,047 --> 00:06:21,923 2022 118 00:06:21,923 --> 00:06:26,386 then, a year before. SoFi Stadium. Los Angeles, California. During Super Bowl 119 00:06:26,386 --> 00:06:30,515 week, 500 prostitution-related arrests were made 120 00:06:30,515 --> 00:06:34,727 in Southern California, resulting in the rescue of dozens of survivors. 121 00:06:34,727 --> 00:06:37,647 2021. Tampa, Florida. 122 00:06:37,647 --> 00:06:41,317 They had 71 men arrested on prostitution-related 123 00:06:41,317 --> 00:06:44,695 charges in an operation they called Operation Game Over. 124 00:06:44,695 --> 00:06:45,613 I love that. 125 00:06:45,613 --> 00:06:47,782 Three of them faced human trafficking charges, 126 00:06:47,782 --> 00:06:51,536 six survivors were rescued, and they have stats for 2020 and 2019. 127 00:06:51,536 --> 00:06:52,745 But you get the picture. 128 00:06:52,745 --> 00:06:55,998 But here's a question for you, Jessica, because, again, it's being debated now. 129 00:06:55,998 --> 00:06:59,377 It's sort of a which comes first: chicken or the egg? 130 00:06:59,377 --> 00:07:03,381 Are there more arrests because the Super Bowl is causing more demand? 131 00:07:03,381 --> 00:07:06,676 Or are there more arrests because law enforcement's ramping up 132 00:07:06,676 --> 00:07:09,011 because they think there will be more demand? 133 00:07:09,011 --> 00:07:10,513 Do you have any thoughts on that? 134 00:07:10,513 --> 00:07:12,348 Well I think it's a fair question to ask, 135 00:07:12,348 --> 00:07:16,561 and I could see somebody falling on either side of those things. 136 00:07:16,561 --> 00:07:19,272 But I would say, if you're having law enforcement 137 00:07:19,272 --> 00:07:24,444 ramp up on all of their interventions - why? Where did that come from? 138 00:07:24,444 --> 00:07:25,319 Was that just a 139 00:07:25,319 --> 00:07:28,906 myth that somebody made up and then law enforcement responded to you? 140 00:07:28,906 --> 00:07:29,449 -Right. 141 00:07:29,449 --> 00:07:35,538 My experience would say that when you have vulnerabilities, 142 00:07:35,538 --> 00:07:38,833 someone's gonna to try and exploit them if there's a buyer. 143 00:07:38,833 --> 00:07:39,250 -Right. 144 00:07:39,250 --> 00:07:46,632 And so, I think that the awareness that came to the event, 145 00:07:46,632 --> 00:07:51,762 like the Super Bowl, came from there being traffickers that were exploiting 146 00:07:51,762 --> 00:07:53,848 somebody’s vulnerabilities because there was buyers. 147 00:07:53,848 --> 00:07:57,226 Now, when I was a kid, I don't remember hearing about this. 148 00:07:57,226 --> 00:07:59,395 We watched the Super Bowl as a family 149 00:07:59,395 --> 00:08:02,482 every year, and I don't remember hearing anything. 150 00:08:02,482 --> 00:08:05,776 So I can see how the Super Bowl 151 00:08:05,776 --> 00:08:09,238 event planners and everybody that's putting the Super Bowl 152 00:08:09,238 --> 00:08:10,948 on would be very upset. 153 00:08:10,948 --> 00:08:13,201 They're like, “We have this event. 154 00:08:13,201 --> 00:08:14,410 It's an American event. 155 00:08:14,410 --> 00:08:17,330 We have millions of people watching. 156 00:08:17,330 --> 00:08:21,459 Stop saying that we are creating human trafficking.” 157 00:08:21,459 --> 00:08:22,293 -Right. 158 00:08:22,293 --> 00:08:25,129 But I would say to the Super Bowl event planners 159 00:08:25,129 --> 00:08:30,426 and everybody involved in the Super Bowl, if they are actively saying, 160 00:08:30,426 --> 00:08:32,595 “Let's make sure that this doesn't happen” versus 161 00:08:32,595 --> 00:08:36,140 We don't want the negative attention and press,” 162 00:08:36,140 --> 00:08:40,520 then there could be a bringing together of the organizations, 163 00:08:40,520 --> 00:08:44,565 the anti-trafficking organizations, the law enforcement and the Super Bowl. 164 00:08:44,565 --> 00:08:45,566 So, that would be 165 00:08:45,566 --> 00:08:49,737 what I would think would be the best solution, is to bring everyone together. 166 00:08:49,737 --> 00:08:50,738 Yeah, absolutely. 167 00:08:50,738 --> 00:08:53,658 And again, I would say that when you have 168 00:08:53,658 --> 00:08:56,827 an event that brings together a lot of men and maybe it's 169 00:08:56,827 --> 00:09:00,039 guys groups and guys weekends and maybe their bachelor parties 170 00:09:00,039 --> 00:09:03,084 and other, I think there's going to be still a lot of demand. 171 00:09:03,084 --> 00:09:03,793 Now, remember, too, 172 00:09:03,793 --> 00:09:08,214 this being in Las Vegas where, you know, there's a lot of a tolerance zone there. 173 00:09:08,214 --> 00:09:11,133 And again, I know they'll say prostitution isn't legal there, but it's certainly, 174 00:09:11,133 --> 00:09:14,887 in a lot of ways, decriminalized, I would say, or certainly allowed. 175 00:09:14,887 --> 00:09:18,724 So how do you look at something like a Las Vegas Super Bowl, 176 00:09:18,724 --> 00:09:20,351 where almost anything goes, right? 177 00:09:20,351 --> 00:09:22,812 And again, not slandering Las Vegas, but that's kind of the image. 178 00:09:22,812 --> 00:09:24,730 And then you see some of these other cities. 179 00:09:24,730 --> 00:09:25,773 But to give equal time. 180 00:09:25,773 --> 00:09:28,693 So again, this Yahoo News article, “It's time to retire 181 00:09:28,693 --> 00:09:31,070 Super Bowl sex trafficking stings and myths.” 182 00:09:31,070 --> 00:09:33,573 They say sex workers call to stop the sting, 183 00:09:33,573 --> 00:09:37,326 so they said that a group of sex workers - I never really like those 184 00:09:37,326 --> 00:09:42,039 who who, you know, just try to champion and say, look, these women are out here, 185 00:09:42,039 --> 00:09:42,999 they're kind of pushed. 186 00:09:42,999 --> 00:09:45,626 I would think that maybe they were being put up 187 00:09:45,626 --> 00:09:48,713 by some of the organized crime groups, some of the others exploiting them. 188 00:09:48,713 --> 00:09:50,840 What is your thought when you see a group of women? 189 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,925 Again, we don't slander the women. We support the women. 190 00:09:52,925 --> 00:09:54,552 We support the victims and survivors. 191 00:09:54,552 --> 00:09:57,722 But those who were saying, “Hey, sex workers - we have rights.” 192 00:09:57,722 --> 00:09:59,765 I never know for sure whether they really are 193 00:09:59,765 --> 00:10:01,475 there on their own free will and accord 194 00:10:01,475 --> 00:10:05,354 or whether someone is threatening them through force, fraud, or coercion, 195 00:10:05,354 --> 00:10:07,023 that you're going to go out and you're going to picket. 196 00:10:07,023 --> 00:10:08,190 Do you have any thoughts on that? 197 00:10:08,190 --> 00:10:11,235 It's definitely a debated topic right now, 198 00:10:11,235 --> 00:10:15,615 both locally and on a national level. 199 00:10:15,615 --> 00:10:18,284 My own opinion on that would be, 200 00:10:18,284 --> 00:10:23,247 if the sex workers are saying that and they are acting on their own accord, 201 00:10:23,247 --> 00:10:26,751 then there are still people that are being exploited. 202 00:10:26,751 --> 00:10:27,168 -Right. 203 00:10:27,168 --> 00:10:31,130 So even if you have one group of people saying, 204 00:10:31,130 --> 00:10:33,924 “Let us work. We're working on our own accord,” 205 00:10:33,924 --> 00:10:37,428 you have this whole other group that's being exploited, specifically minors. 206 00:10:37,428 --> 00:10:41,265 If you have a minor that's being forced, fraud, coercion, 207 00:10:41,265 --> 00:10:44,852 all those different things in any way, shape, or form, 208 00:10:44,852 --> 00:10:47,188 there's trafficking and exploitation happening. 209 00:10:47,188 --> 00:10:47,563 -Right. 210 00:10:47,563 --> 00:10:51,817 And there are also women that I've worked with that are over the age of 18. 211 00:10:51,817 --> 00:10:55,321 Lots of women that I've worked with that are over the age of 18 212 00:10:55,321 --> 00:10:58,199 that say, “I thought I was going to do this. 213 00:10:58,199 --> 00:10:59,867 I thought I was going to be a model.” 214 00:10:59,867 --> 00:11:01,619 This is in the United States. 215 00:11:01,619 --> 00:11:05,456 “I thought I was going for a modeling job, a promotion, 216 00:11:05,456 --> 00:11:07,291 a promo model type of job. 217 00:11:07,291 --> 00:11:12,296 And then, I was forced to be in an outfit that I didn't want to be in, 218 00:11:12,296 --> 00:11:15,257 whether that's a bikini, no clothes at all, things like that, 219 00:11:15,257 --> 00:11:19,011 and I was filmed during these situations, or I was forced 220 00:11:19,011 --> 00:11:20,596 to go and sleep with somebody. 221 00:11:20,596 --> 00:11:24,725 But I thought I was doing something else and I was tricked into doing this.” 222 00:11:24,725 --> 00:11:26,185 Yeah, absolutely. 223 00:11:26,185 --> 00:11:27,478 And I think as we start to wrap up 224 00:11:27,478 --> 00:11:30,731 here, again, we'll put just a quick bow on this whole Super Bowl, 225 00:11:30,731 --> 00:11:31,941 is it a magnet? 226 00:11:31,941 --> 00:11:32,441 Is it not? 227 00:11:32,441 --> 00:11:35,486 Because, again, we really want to focus on, in the second and third segments, 228 00:11:35,486 --> 00:11:36,779 on what trafficking really looks like. 229 00:11:36,779 --> 00:11:38,447 And I love - that's what IJM says. 230 00:11:38,447 --> 00:11:41,450 Look, no one knows for sure whether it's a magnet, 231 00:11:41,450 --> 00:11:45,496 but regardless, this happens 365 days a year. 232 00:11:45,496 --> 00:11:49,917 So to the extent that the Super Bowl raises awareness of human trafficking, 233 00:11:49,917 --> 00:11:51,377 I think that's great, right? 234 00:11:51,377 --> 00:11:52,169 We all are there. 235 00:11:52,169 --> 00:11:54,422 We want more people focused on human trafficking. 236 00:11:54,422 --> 00:11:57,800 But let's not forget the other 364 days of the year. 237 00:11:57,800 --> 00:11:59,885 So, we're going to take a quick break. 238 00:11:59,885 --> 00:12:01,011 When we come back, we're going to have 239 00:12:01,011 --> 00:12:04,056 Jessica talk a little bit about some Super Bowl outreach 240 00:12:04,056 --> 00:12:07,643 she did a few years ago on behalf of Operation Underground Railroad. 241 00:12:07,643 --> 00:12:08,436 I'll talk briefly 242 00:12:08,436 --> 00:12:11,689 about the ‘It's a Penalty’ campaign that OUR supported in the past, 243 00:12:11,689 --> 00:12:14,608 but then we're going to quickly pivot to talk about: again, 244 00:12:14,608 --> 00:12:16,861 what does human trafficking look like every single day? 245 00:12:16,861 --> 00:12:20,489 Why are traffickers able to pry on women and girls with vulnerabilities, 246 00:12:20,489 --> 00:12:21,907 boys and men as well? 247 00:12:21,907 --> 00:12:25,411 And then we can dive into a little bit about what I think is the most important, 248 00:12:25,411 --> 00:12:26,662 is the demand side. 249 00:12:26,662 --> 00:12:29,331 Thanks for being here with us on Voices for Freedom, 250 00:12:29,331 --> 00:12:31,417 an anti-human trafficking podcast. 251 00:12:31,417 --> 00:12:32,543 Don't go anywhere. 252 00:12:32,543 --> 00:12:38,340 A big thanks to our sponsor, OUR Rescue Store, for supporting our podcast. 253 00:12:38,340 --> 00:12:42,511 The OUR Rescue Store is committed to responsibly sourcing products 254 00:12:42,511 --> 00:12:45,765 that ignite conversations about human trafficking, 255 00:12:45,765 --> 00:12:49,560 raising awareness and contributing to the movement against it. 256 00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:53,314 With more than enough colors, designs, and items to choose from, 257 00:12:53,314 --> 00:12:56,025 there's definitely something for you. 258 00:12:56,025 --> 00:12:56,692 Find something 259 00:12:56,692 --> 00:13:00,196 you'll be proud to own, and be an advocate for change. 260 00:13:00,196 --> 00:13:03,783 Visit store.ourrescue.org and use 261 00:13:03,783 --> 00:13:08,162 the promo code Voices10 for 10% off your purchase. 262 00:13:08,162 --> 00:13:13,250 That's Voices10 on store.ourrescue.org. 263 00:13:13,417 --> 00:13:18,088 Welcome back to the Voices for Freedom, an anti-human trafficking podcast. 264 00:13:18,088 --> 00:13:23,010 We are happy that you are joining us today because we want to talk about topics 265 00:13:23,010 --> 00:13:26,555 that are debated, that are hard conversations, 266 00:13:26,555 --> 00:13:30,434 and we want to bring light to them, and we want to invite you into them. 267 00:13:30,434 --> 00:13:35,105 Maybe this will help spark a conversation at your dinner table tonight 268 00:13:35,105 --> 00:13:38,234 because we care that more people start 269 00:13:38,234 --> 00:13:42,279 engaging in this anti-trafficking movement because that's 270 00:13:42,279 --> 00:13:46,742 the only way that trafficking will have an end to it. 271 00:13:46,784 --> 00:13:48,035 We need everyone. 272 00:13:48,035 --> 00:13:51,330 And so, that's why we talk about these conversations 273 00:13:51,330 --> 00:13:54,124 and these topics that are debated. 274 00:13:54,124 --> 00:13:58,254 And so, Matt, we've been talking about the Super Bowl specifically. 275 00:13:58,254 --> 00:13:58,712 That’s right. 276 00:13:58,712 --> 00:13:59,421 And we don't want to 277 00:13:59,421 --> 00:14:03,425 stay on this too long, but I will share a little bit of my experience 278 00:14:03,425 --> 00:14:08,973 when I was doing outreach with several different local anti-trafficking 279 00:14:08,973 --> 00:14:13,352 organizations on the aftercare side. -Remind me, was that the Tampa Super Bowl? 280 00:14:13,352 --> 00:14:14,812 I'm trying to think from a few years ago. Where were you? 281 00:14:14,812 --> 00:14:15,521 -It was the Tampa. 282 00:14:15,521 --> 00:14:16,564 Tampa Super Bowl, right? 283 00:14:16,564 --> 00:14:17,314 -Yeah. Okay. 284 00:14:17,314 --> 00:14:19,650 Absolutely. Yeah. And I wasn't even involved in that, 285 00:14:19,650 --> 00:14:22,111 but I heard from you afterwards - what you were on the ground. 286 00:14:22,111 --> 00:14:22,903 So share a little bit 287 00:14:22,903 --> 00:14:25,906 with the audience on some of the things OUR was helping to sponsor 288 00:14:25,906 --> 00:14:27,741 during that Super Bowl a few years ago. 289 00:14:27,741 --> 00:14:32,037 So we did actual street outreach because we knew that the vulnerabilities 290 00:14:32,037 --> 00:14:34,832 of the girls on the streets could be exploited 291 00:14:34,832 --> 00:14:39,628 and that people could lure them into being purchased for sex 292 00:14:39,628 --> 00:14:42,631 when that's not something they normally would have been involved in. 293 00:14:42,631 --> 00:14:46,802 But because of their vulnerabilities and there being such a demand for sex. 294 00:14:46,802 --> 00:14:49,513 We also worked with law enforcement 295 00:14:49,513 --> 00:14:52,808 on the ads that were created online. 296 00:14:52,808 --> 00:14:57,438 And so, there were several ads that I personally saw and that we were a part 297 00:14:57,438 --> 00:15:02,526 of calling those ads, where there would be people that are advertised online, 298 00:15:02,526 --> 00:15:06,030 whether that's Craigslist, their local 299 00:15:06,030 --> 00:15:08,782 KSL type of platform. 300 00:15:08,782 --> 00:15:13,078 And then you go into your TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, 301 00:15:13,078 --> 00:15:15,873 all those different types of social media platforms as well. 302 00:15:15,873 --> 00:15:20,961 But, the ones that we were working with were more of a Craigslist type of platform. 303 00:15:20,961 --> 00:15:23,547 So you would have girls that were being advertised on there. 304 00:15:23,547 --> 00:15:25,633 And I've seen this throughout the years 305 00:15:25,633 --> 00:15:29,970 of working in anti-trafficking, where they'll advertise minors 306 00:15:29,970 --> 00:15:34,767 for sex using specific words that somebody that knows what they're looking for. 307 00:15:34,767 --> 00:15:37,144 Little codes, right. So law enforcement’s not gonna trigger 308 00:15:37,144 --> 00:15:38,687 their algorithms or anything, right 309 00:15:38,687 --> 00:15:40,606 to go and try to bust them. 310 00:15:40,606 --> 00:15:41,315 A little bit sneaky. 311 00:15:41,315 --> 00:15:45,152 Do you remember some of the terms or some of the terminology they were using? 312 00:15:45,152 --> 00:15:47,071 I try not to say those terms 313 00:15:47,071 --> 00:15:50,491 because I don't want to spark someone to go look for that. 314 00:15:50,491 --> 00:15:51,283 Good point. 315 00:15:51,283 --> 00:15:52,826 It’s disturbing as well, 316 00:15:52,826 --> 00:15:56,413 some of the things that they use to refer to 317 00:15:56,413 --> 00:15:59,792 for minors and how to specifically find them. 318 00:15:59,792 --> 00:16:01,710 And I imagine pedophiles every year, right - 319 00:16:01,710 --> 00:16:02,878 the networks are changing 320 00:16:02,878 --> 00:16:05,547 the words. They’re trying to stay one step ahead of law enforcement, right? 321 00:16:05,547 --> 00:16:07,049 Yep, exactly. 322 00:16:07,049 --> 00:16:10,803 And so having those children and adults listed on 323 00:16:10,803 --> 00:16:15,140 those different platforms and then, we would call. And we would then 324 00:16:15,140 --> 00:16:20,771 hear, typically, a man on the other line, saying this is the price for that person 325 00:16:20,771 --> 00:16:25,234 If you want to purchase them. We would let them know that we were 326 00:16:25,234 --> 00:16:30,656 actually not there to purchase them, that we are an intervention organization. 327 00:16:30,656 --> 00:16:32,866 We would report that number to law enforcement - 328 00:16:32,866 --> 00:16:36,161 that phone number that we called - and then, they would take over from there. 329 00:16:36,161 --> 00:16:38,330 -Yeah. So there was that side of things. 330 00:16:38,330 --> 00:16:41,208 Then the outreach side of things, we worked with several people 331 00:16:41,208 --> 00:16:45,838 that were on the streets that said that they had been approached by people 332 00:16:45,838 --> 00:16:47,214 looking for sex. 333 00:16:47,214 --> 00:16:48,966 Situation that was happening is 334 00:16:48,966 --> 00:16:52,177 you would have somebody that would come in for the Super Bowl. 335 00:16:52,177 --> 00:16:57,307 They're driving down the streets, and they're saying, “Oh that person, 336 00:16:57,307 --> 00:17:01,228 maybe I can give them 100 bucks and take them back to my hotel room 337 00:17:01,228 --> 00:17:03,564 for an hour and then 338 00:17:03,564 --> 00:17:04,815 send them off.” 339 00:17:04,815 --> 00:17:10,946 I remember talking with one buyer during the Super Bowl time 340 00:17:10,946 --> 00:17:14,324 and his justification was, 341 00:17:14,324 --> 00:17:17,494 “That person looked like they needed money. 342 00:17:17,494 --> 00:17:20,205 I just provided them with finances. 343 00:17:20,205 --> 00:17:24,251 And so, I did them a service by sleeping with them and giving them money.” 344 00:17:24,251 --> 00:17:27,296 Anything they can excuse or protect themselves. 345 00:17:27,296 --> 00:17:31,717 Do you remember the ‘It's A Penalty’ campaign, which they still use as well? 346 00:17:31,717 --> 00:17:35,304 And I noticed that in Las Vegas this past year, or this past 347 00:17:35,304 --> 00:17:38,766 Super Bowl just a few weeks ago, that they had many of there main resorts 348 00:17:38,766 --> 00:17:42,728 and casinos supporting, including, the Las Vegas Raiders, 349 00:17:42,728 --> 00:17:45,773 some airlines, including Carlson Travel Companies, which is where 350 00:17:45,773 --> 00:17:49,109 our new CEO, Tammy Lee, had some experience in the past. 351 00:17:49,109 --> 00:17:52,404 OUR was a sponsor a few years ago of ‘It's A Penalty,’ that campaign. 352 00:17:52,404 --> 00:17:55,407 And I remember in the American Way Magazine - American Airlines 353 00:17:55,407 --> 00:17:59,286 that we were there listed in this ad, and it was for people flying to Florida. 354 00:17:59,286 --> 00:17:59,745 I can’t remember 355 00:17:59,745 --> 00:18:03,624 if that was the Miami Super Bowl or which one but on a big American Airlines route. 356 00:18:03,624 --> 00:18:05,918 So that's interesting to know that OUR was on the ground. 357 00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:07,503 Hopefully we can help in the future. 358 00:18:07,503 --> 00:18:08,879 But while we have time in this segment, 359 00:18:08,879 --> 00:18:11,340 as we mentioned a few minutes ago, 360 00:18:11,340 --> 00:18:13,050 regardless of whether the Super Bowl is 361 00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:17,679 or isn't the largest human trafficking magnet out there, that is beside the point 362 00:18:17,679 --> 00:18:21,266 because this happens on the other 364 days as well. 363 00:18:21,266 --> 00:18:24,770 Talk to us a little bit about, sort of, what trafficking looks like in the U.S., 364 00:18:24,770 --> 00:18:26,730 certainly with the survivors you've worked with 365 00:18:26,730 --> 00:18:27,898 because it's different overseas. 366 00:18:27,898 --> 00:18:30,692 And we'll have other episodes that talk about that overseas. 367 00:18:30,692 --> 00:18:33,320 But what does it look like here in the U.S.? 368 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:35,405 And what are the traffickers preying on? 369 00:18:35,405 --> 00:18:37,950 Because remember, in our last segment, we’re going to talk about the buyer, 370 00:18:37,950 --> 00:18:40,452 the men's side, but talk about from the victim and 371 00:18:40,452 --> 00:18:43,455 survivor perspective on why there are so many vulnerabilities. 372 00:18:43,455 --> 00:18:45,958 I’ll touch on ‘It's A penalty’ campaign a little bit, too, 373 00:18:45,958 --> 00:18:49,586 because I remember that so well because Liam Neeson is who did it. 374 00:18:49,586 --> 00:18:55,717 -Yes. He was such a supporter of anti-trafficking 375 00:18:55,717 --> 00:18:59,596 because he's the one that always gets referenced for “Taken.” 376 00:18:59,596 --> 00:19:00,055 Right. 377 00:19:00,055 --> 00:19:02,766 So many people, all they know about human trafficking is “Taken.” 378 00:19:02,766 --> 00:19:04,977 Okay. It's not “Taken.” It's not “Pretty Woman.” 379 00:19:04,977 --> 00:19:06,812 It's somewhere in between. So you're absolutely right. 380 00:19:06,812 --> 00:19:07,312 Yeah. 381 00:19:07,312 --> 00:19:10,941 And Liam Neeson was like, “I don't want to be the reason why 382 00:19:10,941 --> 00:19:14,695 people think that this is the only way that trafficking happens.” 383 00:19:14,695 --> 00:19:17,948 And so, he stepped up [and] was a part of that campaign, 384 00:19:17,948 --> 00:19:19,116 ‘It's A penalty.’ 385 00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:21,827 And he wanted to be a part of the solution, 386 00:19:21,827 --> 00:19:25,581 not just the reference that all anti-trafficking organizations use 387 00:19:25,581 --> 00:19:28,041 as it's not just like the movie “Taken.” 388 00:19:28,041 --> 00:19:28,917 I’d forgotten about that. 389 00:19:28,917 --> 00:19:29,751 Yeah, I’d forgotten. 390 00:19:29,751 --> 00:19:32,588 But yeah - we love Liam Neeson for so many reasons. 391 00:19:32,588 --> 00:19:33,964 Well good, well talk about 392 00:19:33,964 --> 00:19:37,050 a little bit about these vulnerabilities because, again, at the end of the day, 393 00:19:37,050 --> 00:19:41,763 that's sort of the source and then preyed upon because of the demand. 394 00:19:41,763 --> 00:19:42,097 Yeah. 395 00:19:42,097 --> 00:19:43,891 So in the United States, 396 00:19:43,891 --> 00:19:46,560 like we mentioned, it's not just like the movie “Taken.” 397 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,187 -Right. And Liam Neeson agrees. 398 00:19:49,188 --> 00:19:50,480 And so, in the United States, a lot of times 399 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,649 And so, in the United States, a lot of times 400 00:19:52,649 --> 00:19:56,820 somebody can be trafficked from their own home, still living at their house. 401 00:19:56,820 --> 00:20:01,200 And there'll be different situations where the trafficker 402 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:04,953 will contact them on Instagram, 403 00:20:04,953 --> 00:20:10,000 and they'll start to make them think that they're a 16 year old boy 404 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,045 who's attractive, and and they'll make this girl fall in 405 00:20:13,045 --> 00:20:17,507 love with him, and they'll really groom somebody. 406 00:20:17,507 --> 00:20:22,596 And in the United States, grooming and how it happens is so prevalent 407 00:20:22,596 --> 00:20:26,892 that if we're not educating our children, all of our children are at risk for this. 408 00:20:26,892 --> 00:20:27,351 -Yeah. 409 00:20:27,351 --> 00:20:30,479 And so, they'll contact them on Instagram. 410 00:20:30,479 --> 00:20:34,107 They'll make them think that they're their own age, try to make them fall 411 00:20:34,107 --> 00:20:39,363 in love with them, sometimes called the Romeo trafficking. 412 00:20:39,363 --> 00:20:43,450 So, they'll get them either to send pictures 413 00:20:43,450 --> 00:20:48,789 of them in swimsuits or nudity, and then, they'll make them think 414 00:20:48,789 --> 00:20:50,666 they're just sending them to them. 415 00:20:50,666 --> 00:20:53,252 And then, they'll start to ask for more and more and more. 416 00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:56,171 And what happens if they don't send them more and more and more? 417 00:20:56,171 --> 00:20:58,465 Then they say, “Well, I'm going to send the pictures 418 00:20:58,465 --> 00:21:00,300 you've already sent me to your parents. 419 00:21:00,300 --> 00:21:03,345 I'm going to post these on social media.” 420 00:21:03,345 --> 00:21:06,807 And so, they start to manipulate them to get them more. 421 00:21:06,807 --> 00:21:10,143 And oftentimes what they'll do with these pictures, 422 00:21:10,143 --> 00:21:13,563 with these videos, is they'll sell them online 423 00:21:13,563 --> 00:21:18,235 for child explicit material, formerly called child pornography. 424 00:21:18,235 --> 00:21:20,153 And so, they'll sell their images. 425 00:21:20,153 --> 00:21:23,365 And so, now they're using them, and they feel like they have control 426 00:21:23,365 --> 00:21:27,327 of this vulnerable girl, which can be anyone. 427 00:21:27,327 --> 00:21:30,622 It can be somebody who is a honor student. 428 00:21:30,622 --> 00:21:34,376 I've worked with kids that are from very wealthy homes. 429 00:21:34,376 --> 00:21:37,671 I've worked with kids that are from extreme poverty. 430 00:21:37,671 --> 00:21:41,133 And so, when you look at the social media side of things 431 00:21:41,133 --> 00:21:44,219 and how people are being sexually exploited 432 00:21:44,219 --> 00:21:48,849 and trafficked on social media, if we, as parents, aren’t a part 433 00:21:48,849 --> 00:21:53,937 of being involved in our kids social media, they are all at risk. 434 00:21:53,937 --> 00:21:55,230 Yes, absolutely. 435 00:21:55,230 --> 00:21:57,816 You know, I saw one time and, again, I'm not the expert, you are, 436 00:21:57,816 --> 00:22:01,361 on sort of the vulnerabilities, but I remember from my school days, Maslow's 437 00:22:01,361 --> 00:22:05,699 hierarchy of needs. These traffickers fill those needs. 438 00:22:05,699 --> 00:22:10,495 Is it some of the basic needs of food, water, shelter, clothing? 439 00:22:10,495 --> 00:22:15,208 Is it needs of feeling belonging, feeling love? 440 00:22:15,208 --> 00:22:19,921 And I use the example of my two daughters, now college age. 441 00:22:19,921 --> 00:22:22,883 They're kind of through the danger zone, for the most part. 442 00:22:22,883 --> 00:22:27,679 But one of my daughters didn't want for any of those type of needs. 443 00:22:27,679 --> 00:22:31,767 However, she always needed to be told she was beautiful. 444 00:22:31,767 --> 00:22:34,519 She always needed to be told that she was radiant. 445 00:22:34,519 --> 00:22:37,397 And I know oftentimes that's sort of how they lure them in. 446 00:22:37,397 --> 00:22:41,068 And you talk about the Romeo aspect, but let's not kid ourselves. 447 00:22:41,068 --> 00:22:42,944 It's not just people from broken homes. 448 00:22:42,944 --> 00:22:46,990 It's not people from - who don't have any chance at life at all. 449 00:22:46,990 --> 00:22:51,661 It's just something that triggers a girl's needs, a boy's needs. 450 00:22:51,661 --> 00:22:54,081 And that's how they get lured into the network, right? 451 00:22:54,081 --> 00:22:55,040 Exactly. 452 00:22:55,040 --> 00:23:01,129 And I think you hit right on it, where it's - we all have a desire to have belonging. 453 00:23:01,129 --> 00:23:05,175 And sometimes those are things like, I need to be told 454 00:23:05,175 --> 00:23:09,096 that I'm attractive because that's what makes me feel like I'm wanted. 455 00:23:09,096 --> 00:23:13,517 And so traffickers will exploit that. Other times, it's 456 00:23:13,517 --> 00:23:16,812 I'll give you a cell phone, and now I've got the coolest, 457 00:23:16,812 --> 00:23:21,358 latest iPhone. And now I look cool amongst my peers. 458 00:23:21,358 --> 00:23:24,736 But then, the trafficker is going to then use that as a grooming 459 00:23:24,736 --> 00:23:28,323 tactic to say, “Now you owe me this.” 460 00:23:28,323 --> 00:23:31,868 And so, I would say that in the United States, 461 00:23:31,868 --> 00:23:34,538 trafficking - does kidnaping and trafficking happen? 462 00:23:34,538 --> 00:23:35,455 Absolutely. 463 00:23:35,455 --> 00:23:37,416 But there's also video games, for example, 464 00:23:37,416 --> 00:23:41,420 where you have the chat rooms on the side and you'll have somebody pretending 465 00:23:41,420 --> 00:23:45,632 to be another child and then they get their address. 466 00:23:45,632 --> 00:23:49,428 And then they get them to either - the trafficker 467 00:23:49,428 --> 00:23:53,098 coming to their house or get the child to meet them at a park. 468 00:23:53,098 --> 00:23:57,602 And so, there's things like that that happen where you have to really 469 00:23:57,602 --> 00:23:58,854 be involved. 470 00:23:58,854 --> 00:24:03,650 And sometimes, one of the things I've seen is that 471 00:24:03,650 --> 00:24:08,071 if the parent isn't highly involved in their child's life, 472 00:24:08,071 --> 00:24:11,366 that doesn't mean the best friend's parent can't be. 473 00:24:11,366 --> 00:24:11,867 Correct. 474 00:24:11,867 --> 00:24:15,245 So, I would say as a community as a whole, we need to be looking out 475 00:24:15,245 --> 00:24:19,124 for our own children and for our kids’ friends as well 476 00:24:19,124 --> 00:24:22,836 because we really have to all be looking out for our kids 477 00:24:22,836 --> 00:24:26,798 because traffickers are waiting to prey on the vulnerabilities of children. 478 00:24:26,798 --> 00:24:27,299 Yeah. 479 00:24:27,299 --> 00:24:30,427 And again, as we’ve said, [it] can't be emphasized enough though. 480 00:24:30,427 --> 00:24:36,266 All of what you just talked about, this grooming, preying on vulnerabilities, 481 00:24:36,266 --> 00:24:40,353 dangers of online and in-person sexual exploitation, 482 00:24:40,353 --> 00:24:44,232 this happens 365 days a year, not just on the Super Bowl 483 00:24:44,232 --> 00:24:46,193 and not just in the run up of the Super Bowl. 484 00:24:46,193 --> 00:24:49,446 And that's what I think people need to know of, 485 00:24:49,446 --> 00:24:51,490 you know, that this is happening. 486 00:24:51,490 --> 00:24:53,158 We're going to have some episodes down the line 487 00:24:53,158 --> 00:24:55,076 where we talk about online safety, 488 00:24:55,076 --> 00:24:57,412 we talk about cyber, you know, grooming. 489 00:24:57,412 --> 00:25:01,541 What we're going do now is, we're going to end this segment 490 00:25:01,541 --> 00:25:03,210 here. And we're going to come back for the final segment 491 00:25:03,210 --> 00:25:06,546 and we're going to talk about from the other end, the demand side, 492 00:25:06,546 --> 00:25:07,506 the buyers. 493 00:25:07,506 --> 00:25:10,717 Something that's near and dear to my heart because I think this is the 494 00:25:10,717 --> 00:25:12,135 long-term solution. 495 00:25:12,135 --> 00:25:14,679 And we'll be right back in a few minutes. Don't go anywhere. 496 00:25:14,679 --> 00:25:18,475 This is Voices for Freedom, an anti-human trafficking podcast. 497 00:25:18,475 --> 00:25:23,647 I want to thank our sponsor, the OUR Store, for supporting this podcast. 498 00:25:23,647 --> 00:25:27,400 Did you know the OUR Rescue Store features Survivor-made items? 499 00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:28,735 In this critical fight, 500 00:25:28,735 --> 00:25:31,196 they serve as symbols of hope. 501 00:25:31,196 --> 00:25:34,991 By choosing to purchase one of these beautifully handcrafted items, 502 00:25:34,991 --> 00:25:37,911 you will impact the healing journey of survivors 503 00:25:37,911 --> 00:25:41,456 and help them reclaim their lives in the process. 504 00:25:41,456 --> 00:25:42,707 We encourage you to shop 505 00:25:42,707 --> 00:25:46,127 survivor-made items on the OUR Rescue website. 506 00:25:46,127 --> 00:25:51,466 It might only be a few dollars to you, but it makes a world of difference to them. 507 00:25:51,466 --> 00:25:54,469 And, in case you need any extra motivation, 508 00:25:54,469 --> 00:25:57,222 use promo code Voices10 509 00:25:57,222 --> 00:26:02,727 for 10% off your purchase at store.ourrescue.org. 510 00:26:02,727 --> 00:26:08,733 That's Voices10 at store.ourrescue.org. 511 00:26:08,733 --> 00:26:12,028 Welcome back to the Voices for Freedom podcast. 512 00:26:12,028 --> 00:26:16,700 We are so happy that you're here because we are talking about the Super Bowl. 513 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:21,162 We're talking about vulnerabilities, and we're going to talk about demand now. 514 00:26:21,162 --> 00:26:26,042 And you might hear in our voices, Matt and I get very passionate about this 515 00:26:26,042 --> 00:26:30,797 because traffickers are not afraid to go after vulnerabilities 516 00:26:30,797 --> 00:26:34,217 of these victims and then survivors. 517 00:26:34,217 --> 00:26:38,763 And so, we have seen firsthand all of these different situations 518 00:26:38,763 --> 00:26:42,851 where traffickers are intending to groom your children, 519 00:26:42,851 --> 00:26:47,897 whether that's during an event or during their normal lives online. 520 00:26:47,897 --> 00:26:52,527 And so, Matt, I know you've worked a lot with the demand side, 521 00:26:52,527 --> 00:26:58,408 and you have gone after that very strongly 522 00:26:58,408 --> 00:26:59,492 and with a lot of passion. 523 00:26:59,492 --> 00:27:03,955 So could you tell us a little bit about the demand and the work that you've done? 524 00:27:03,955 --> 00:27:08,960 And also, why do you care so much about that side of the issue? 525 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,379 Yeah, this to me now is what really gets my, 526 00:27:11,379 --> 00:27:14,883 you know, my passion going because this is the long-term solution. 527 00:27:14,883 --> 00:27:18,178 As we empower law enforcement to rescue and rehabilitate 528 00:27:18,178 --> 00:27:21,097 victims of trafficking around the world, focused on children, 529 00:27:21,097 --> 00:27:24,267 we're starting to ramp up now an awareness program more 530 00:27:24,267 --> 00:27:26,561 because that's the long-term solution as I mentioned. 531 00:27:26,561 --> 00:27:27,854 And I've worked this issue from, 532 00:27:27,854 --> 00:27:31,691 you know, the CIA, Department of State, from the policy side, intelligence side, 533 00:27:31,691 --> 00:27:35,320 leading OUR Rescue operations, working with you on aftercare. 534 00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:37,614 Now in this type of awareness raising. 535 00:27:37,614 --> 00:27:42,410 But what I've seen clearly is - and again, you can't over emphasize this - 536 00:27:42,410 --> 00:27:46,122 if there was no demand, there'd be no supply, Right? 537 00:27:46,122 --> 00:27:48,375 There'd be no need for trafficking victims. 538 00:27:48,375 --> 00:27:52,253 And we talked earlier about the trafficker - because it's three legs on a stool. 539 00:27:52,253 --> 00:27:54,756 There's the trafficker, himself or herself. 540 00:27:54,756 --> 00:27:56,132 There's the victim, right. 541 00:27:56,132 --> 00:27:57,592 And soon, hopefully the survivor. 542 00:27:57,592 --> 00:28:00,345 But then there's the sex buyer, the John, if you will, 543 00:28:00,345 --> 00:28:02,347 right. And apologies any of you out there named John. 544 00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:04,182 That's just what they're called, the Johns. 545 00:28:04,182 --> 00:28:07,644 And that's where we really need to start focusing on long term. 546 00:28:07,644 --> 00:28:09,479 I've had a chance to work in the past 547 00:28:09,479 --> 00:28:11,981 with a couple of organizations focused on that. 548 00:28:11,981 --> 00:28:14,109 There's a great group in Dallas called New Friends New Life. 549 00:28:14,109 --> 00:28:17,404 They have something called the manKINDness Project, where they reach young men. 550 00:28:17,404 --> 00:28:18,780 But think about it in this way. 551 00:28:18,780 --> 00:28:23,201 No man just wakes up one day at the age of 30 or 40 or 50, 552 00:28:23,201 --> 00:28:26,663 and you know this, and says, “Today, I'm going to dial up a prostitute. 553 00:28:26,663 --> 00:28:30,458 I'm going to get online and get an escort. I'm going to go to the Super Bowl and go 554 00:28:30,458 --> 00:28:35,130 with some buddies and get a stripper and then pay to take her to do whatever.” 555 00:28:35,130 --> 00:28:37,340 It's a journey of a thousand steps. 556 00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:41,553 And those first steps are: objectifying women, calling them 557 00:28:41,553 --> 00:28:46,307 certain names, the B word and worse, or thinking of them as that. 558 00:28:46,307 --> 00:28:49,978 You know, boiling all of their essence as a human being into their sex parts, 559 00:28:49,978 --> 00:28:51,771 right. Going with the flow. 560 00:28:51,771 --> 00:28:55,108 “Hey, we're going out tonight, and we're going to look at this and that.” 561 00:28:55,108 --> 00:29:00,280 And if we can stop that early on, if we can truly define for men 562 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:04,075 that this is trafficking, it's not prostitution. 563 00:29:04,075 --> 00:29:05,660 These are victims out there. 564 00:29:05,660 --> 00:29:07,328 They're not volunteers. 565 00:29:07,328 --> 00:29:09,330 And I think that's the long term. 566 00:29:09,330 --> 00:29:10,874 So any men out there, right, 567 00:29:10,874 --> 00:29:14,002 and I know you're tuning into this because you're part of the solution, 568 00:29:14,002 --> 00:29:15,587 well, that's what we need you to be. 569 00:29:15,587 --> 00:29:17,589 So many around the world might say, “Well, 570 00:29:17,589 --> 00:29:20,091 I would never buy sex, so I'm not part of the problem.” 571 00:29:20,091 --> 00:29:23,344 Well that's great, but that's the floor. We need to rise, 572 00:29:23,344 --> 00:29:27,098 you know, raise the bar here, and we need to encourage others to educate. 573 00:29:27,098 --> 00:29:30,310 So a lot of that is talk about healthy masculinity. 574 00:29:30,310 --> 00:29:33,271 And I can sit here and talk till I'm blue in the face, and I will a little bit 575 00:29:33,271 --> 00:29:36,524 more in this segment as we go back and forth and talk about toxic 576 00:29:36,524 --> 00:29:40,278 masculinity, talk about pornography, talk about these type of things. 577 00:29:40,278 --> 00:29:43,448 But the most impactful is what you see, 578 00:29:43,448 --> 00:29:47,494 Jessica, on your end, the survivors, the victims. 579 00:29:47,494 --> 00:29:51,414 Can you share again - and obviously protecting identities, protecting things? 580 00:29:51,414 --> 00:29:53,708 But what have you been told in the past? 581 00:29:53,708 --> 00:29:56,294 Because remember, you're dealing with these vulnerable women 582 00:29:56,294 --> 00:29:57,837 right after the rescue 583 00:29:57,837 --> 00:30:01,674 who have just been raped and abused for weeks, months, years. 584 00:30:01,674 --> 00:30:03,760 What did they say about the clients? 585 00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:04,177 Cause that's 586 00:30:04,177 --> 00:30:07,972 what I want this audience to realize is the clients, they're all of us. 587 00:30:07,972 --> 00:30:10,350 They're from all walks of life. 588 00:30:10,350 --> 00:30:13,853 Average six-figure income, married, have kids. 589 00:30:13,853 --> 00:30:15,230 Well, we wish, don't we 590 00:30:15,230 --> 00:30:18,858 that traffickers and predators would walk around with horns and a tail, right? 591 00:30:18,858 --> 00:30:22,195 That would walk around where we could, you know, “That's a trafficker. That's a pedophile.” 592 00:30:22,195 --> 00:30:24,364 No, they're in society. 593 00:30:24,364 --> 00:30:28,910 So help us a little bit to understand who is on the other end of that purchase 594 00:30:28,910 --> 00:30:30,870 when you see these wonderful angels, 595 00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:34,624 these vulnerable women come out of this situation of sex trafficking? 596 00:30:34,624 --> 00:30:38,002 Yes. So, Matt, first, I want to say I'm so glad 597 00:30:38,002 --> 00:30:41,339 that you are willing to talk about all of these different things 598 00:30:41,339 --> 00:30:46,177 from a male's perspective because what I hear a lot of my male 599 00:30:46,177 --> 00:30:50,306 friends say is they're like, “Well, we don't talk about this as guys. 600 00:30:50,306 --> 00:30:52,100 We don't bring it up. 601 00:30:52,100 --> 00:30:57,772 We don't call each other out on these things.” When, in reality, 602 00:30:57,772 --> 00:31:01,609 these are the things that guys need to be leading the conversation 603 00:31:01,609 --> 00:31:03,444 with each other on. -Right. 604 00:31:03,444 --> 00:31:07,115 So you touched on pornography, for example. 605 00:31:07,115 --> 00:31:11,327 A lot of times people don't realize that when they are engaging 606 00:31:11,327 --> 00:31:15,748 in pornography, who that person is on the other side. 607 00:31:15,748 --> 00:31:19,669 And I've worked with so many survivors 608 00:31:19,669 --> 00:31:23,715 that were tricked into this, both minors and adults. 609 00:31:23,715 --> 00:31:26,551 And people think like, “Oh, they're a consenting adult 610 00:31:26,551 --> 00:31:28,720 in that pornographic video.” 611 00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,140 Well, one of the girls I worked with, she was told 612 00:31:32,140 --> 00:31:36,311 that she was going to have a modeling job in California. 613 00:31:36,311 --> 00:31:38,229 She was taken to California. 614 00:31:38,229 --> 00:31:42,942 She went on her own accord, buying the flight, 615 00:31:42,942 --> 00:31:46,571 showing up there, thinking, “I get to be a model. 616 00:31:46,571 --> 00:31:48,531 That's so exciting.” 617 00:31:48,531 --> 00:31:53,161 What happened was, is that she was then drugged. 618 00:31:53,161 --> 00:31:56,956 She was forced to be in these pornographic videos. 619 00:31:56,956 --> 00:32:00,418 She was told that if you don't look like you're enjoying it. 620 00:32:00,418 --> 00:32:04,047 Then you're going to get the %$&* beat out of you. 621 00:32:04,047 --> 00:32:07,884 And she saw some of the other girls that didn't look like they were 622 00:32:07,884 --> 00:32:12,889 enjoying it in this pornographic video that's on a major porn site. 623 00:32:12,889 --> 00:32:15,934 So these videos went to a major porn site 624 00:32:15,934 --> 00:32:19,562 that had consequences that have come to them more recently. 625 00:32:19,562 --> 00:32:20,563 -Yeah. Good. 626 00:32:20,563 --> 00:32:25,443 But you think about this girl, thinking that she's going to be a model, 627 00:32:25,443 --> 00:32:29,489 shows up, gets drugged, forced to be in these pornographic videos, 628 00:32:29,489 --> 00:32:32,700 and then you have the demand side of people looking and engaging 629 00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:34,035 in these videos. 630 00:32:34,035 --> 00:32:40,166 And they have no idea that she struggled with wanting to end her life. 631 00:32:40,166 --> 00:32:45,088 And had attempts of ending her life. Her entire social network 632 00:32:45,088 --> 00:32:47,799 now all knew about her videos. 633 00:32:47,799 --> 00:32:51,844 She had people coming up to her on the street saying, “I saw your video.” 634 00:32:51,844 --> 00:32:55,640 And treating her like a piece of meat on the streets 635 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,644 because they're like, “Oh, you're just a girl that was in a porn video. 636 00:32:59,644 --> 00:33:03,690 I can now objectify you now as well.” 637 00:33:03,690 --> 00:33:05,942 And her life was completely destroyed. 638 00:33:05,942 --> 00:33:08,820 She's had to rebuild it from the ground up. 639 00:33:08,820 --> 00:33:11,906 And I imagine that the majority of those men looking at her, 640 00:33:11,906 --> 00:33:15,326 watching her in the porn video either didn't know or didn't want to know that she was 641 00:33:15,326 --> 00:33:18,621 [not] there of her own free will and accord. And, you know, pornography - 642 00:33:18,621 --> 00:33:22,125 and that's something that I've been hugely advocating against. 643 00:33:22,125 --> 00:33:23,876 And again, not as some, you know, fuddy duddy 644 00:33:23,876 --> 00:33:27,046 moralist but just seeing that this is now a national health crisis 645 00:33:27,046 --> 00:33:29,757 when you think about it. And I use myself as an example, right, 646 00:33:29,757 --> 00:33:31,467 it’s a little embarrassing, doesn't make me look good. 647 00:33:31,467 --> 00:33:33,845 But I'm 52 years old. 648 00:33:33,845 --> 00:33:37,390 I can't remember what I had for lunch the day before yesterday, right. 649 00:33:37,390 --> 00:33:39,058 True story, day before yesterday. 650 00:33:39,058 --> 00:33:41,310 But right now, I can remember and vividly 651 00:33:41,310 --> 00:33:44,480 if I close my eyes, I can see the pictures, the images 652 00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:48,651 in the first Playboy magazine I saw when I was in fifth grade. 653 00:33:48,651 --> 00:33:50,611 Fifth grade, and I can still see those pictures. 654 00:33:50,611 --> 00:33:54,157 And that was when it was on a glossy paper, just images. 655 00:33:54,157 --> 00:33:57,618 Now, it's video and audio. 656 00:33:57,618 --> 00:33:58,786 It's on demand. 657 00:33:58,786 --> 00:34:01,789 It's Racist. It's misogynistic. It's homophobic. 658 00:34:01,789 --> 00:34:05,585 It's violent. It's children. And this is what's so addicting. 659 00:34:05,585 --> 00:34:09,255 But as you as a consumer of pornography, I'll just say 660 00:34:09,255 --> 00:34:11,549 you have no idea when you're reading or watching 661 00:34:11,549 --> 00:34:13,801 if those victims on the other end - or let's say this way. 662 00:34:13,801 --> 00:34:17,764 If those participants on the other end want to be there or not. 663 00:34:17,764 --> 00:34:20,224 And what you just mentioned, how many times have we heard 664 00:34:20,224 --> 00:34:22,477 and seen stories that either 665 00:34:22,477 --> 00:34:25,980 victims and survivors were forced to make pornographic videos, 666 00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:29,317 or that there was porn being shown all over the brothel, 667 00:34:29,317 --> 00:34:31,235 right, to desensitize them? 668 00:34:31,235 --> 00:34:33,362 I mean, you remember some of those stories you've seen that 669 00:34:33,362 --> 00:34:36,908 just show this tie between pornography and sex trafficking, 670 00:34:36,908 --> 00:34:39,285 between pornography and child exploitation. 671 00:34:39,285 --> 00:34:39,786 Yeah. 672 00:34:39,786 --> 00:34:43,539 There's so many stories I could share that I'll have to limit it. 673 00:34:43,539 --> 00:34:47,668 There's girls that we've worked with that are minors in other countries 674 00:34:47,668 --> 00:34:51,631 that Americans have flown down to film them, and then they'll sell that 675 00:34:51,631 --> 00:34:54,967 child explicit material on all the U.S. 676 00:34:54,967 --> 00:34:56,094 porn sites. 677 00:34:56,094 --> 00:34:56,719 It's often 678 00:34:56,719 --> 00:35:00,723 been said that we're the number one consumers and producers of pornography. 679 00:35:00,723 --> 00:35:01,516 Yep, we are. 680 00:35:01,516 --> 00:35:05,228 One story, though, specifically of a girl that I worked with here in the United 681 00:35:05,228 --> 00:35:08,981 States was forced to watch pornography when she was five years old. 682 00:35:08,981 --> 00:35:11,567 Oh my gosh. And that totally rewires your brain, doesn't it? 683 00:35:11,567 --> 00:35:13,111 I mean, like I said, you heard me fifth grade. 684 00:35:13,111 --> 00:35:14,987 I can still remember those pictures. 685 00:35:14,987 --> 00:35:17,907 Can you imagine that - five years old watching this hardcore - 686 00:35:17,907 --> 00:35:19,117 what would that do to the brain? 687 00:35:19,117 --> 00:35:20,576 And she was forced to watch it 688 00:35:20,576 --> 00:35:24,664 because she was being trained to act out those things. 689 00:35:24,664 --> 00:35:29,043 So think about that side of the porn industry 690 00:35:29,043 --> 00:35:32,338 where it's we have children that are being forced to watch it 691 00:35:32,338 --> 00:35:36,092 so that then those children have to act those things out on adult men. 692 00:35:36,092 --> 00:35:36,676 Yeah. 693 00:35:36,676 --> 00:35:41,055 And just that aspect and what it's done to her and the pain 694 00:35:41,055 --> 00:35:45,184 and then trying to have a healthy sexual life as an adult with partners 695 00:35:45,184 --> 00:35:49,438 that, you know, whether that's a spouse, a partner, whatever that looks like 696 00:35:49,438 --> 00:35:52,400 and the battles that they have to go through 697 00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,862 and it goes back to childhood and what they were exposed to. 698 00:35:55,862 --> 00:35:57,405 Yeah, you know, absolutely. 699 00:35:57,405 --> 00:36:02,410 And I think that we should do an entire episode on demand. 700 00:36:02,410 --> 00:36:06,205 We certainly can do and will do an entire episode on pornography. 701 00:36:06,205 --> 00:36:09,667 But something that you said a minute ago that I think is important is men 702 00:36:09,667 --> 00:36:11,711 don't talk about these things with other men. 703 00:36:11,711 --> 00:36:13,462 And I'm the first one to admit 704 00:36:13,462 --> 00:36:17,300 that I would never challenge anyone when they told a sexist joke. 705 00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:21,053 And I probably told some in the past and laughed at others. 706 00:36:21,053 --> 00:36:24,223 And I will admit, you know, in my early twenties, 30 years ago, 707 00:36:24,223 --> 00:36:26,767 I went to a bachelor party and at a strip club. 708 00:36:26,767 --> 00:36:29,187 And I can't change the past. 709 00:36:29,187 --> 00:36:31,147 I can change the present, the future. 710 00:36:31,147 --> 00:36:33,983 So what I would say to men listening and watching is, 711 00:36:33,983 --> 00:36:37,945 it's not an even trade. It's not a, “Oh she wants my money. 712 00:36:37,945 --> 00:36:39,488 I want her body. 713 00:36:39,488 --> 00:36:42,491 She's okay with that because that's just the business she chose.” 714 00:36:42,491 --> 00:36:43,701 That's not true. 715 00:36:43,701 --> 00:36:47,079 Or even if perhaps she signed the line, “Okay, I'm going to work in this table 716 00:36:47,079 --> 00:36:49,707 dance bar. I'm going to work in this industry.” 717 00:36:49,707 --> 00:36:53,336 She didn't grow up, I would argue, wanting to be in this industry 718 00:36:53,336 --> 00:36:57,506 and likely one or more bad things happened to her in the past. 719 00:36:57,506 --> 00:36:59,800 And I'll give you kind of the last time to talk about this. 720 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:00,676 Maybe use a real-world 721 00:37:00,676 --> 00:37:03,971 example that someone who shows up to work in the sex industry 722 00:37:03,971 --> 00:37:07,975 perhaps was raped by a stepfather, kicked out of the house, hooked on drugs. 723 00:37:07,975 --> 00:37:12,063 And you, as a consumer of that, whether it's ,again, at a strip club - 724 00:37:12,063 --> 00:37:16,943 that's pornography in my book - or watching porn, you're contributing to that. 725 00:37:16,943 --> 00:37:17,652 So again, 726 00:37:17,652 --> 00:37:21,614 you can't change the past, but let's all rally together as good men. 727 00:37:21,614 --> 00:37:23,449 And like I said, talking to the men in the audience. 728 00:37:23,449 --> 00:37:24,742 To the women in the audience rally 729 00:37:24,742 --> 00:37:28,788 the good men in your life to say no to this type of thing. 730 00:37:28,788 --> 00:37:31,207 This is the long-term solution, isn't it? 731 00:37:31,207 --> 00:37:35,127 If you want the the last word on this, because I think there's so powerful 732 00:37:35,127 --> 00:37:38,923 and then, again, we'll commit to doing one or two episodes in the future on this 733 00:37:38,923 --> 00:37:40,049 because it's so important. 734 00:37:40,049 --> 00:37:40,758 And obviously 735 00:37:40,758 --> 00:37:42,927 because this is the long-term solution. 736 00:37:42,927 --> 00:37:45,388 Thank you, Matt. And again, thank you for your passion. 737 00:37:45,388 --> 00:37:49,183 Thank you for being vulnerable yourself and speaking out 738 00:37:49,183 --> 00:37:52,895 because I do think men need to say, 739 00:37:52,895 --> 00:37:56,148 “Let's be a part of that solution and stop this,” 740 00:37:56,148 --> 00:38:00,069 but also understanding the layers 741 00:38:00,069 --> 00:38:03,322 of how this industry is all connected. 742 00:38:03,322 --> 00:38:05,783 So I appreciate that Matt. 743 00:38:05,783 --> 00:38:07,410 And thank you all for listening. 744 00:38:07,410 --> 00:38:09,328 We've been talking about the Super Bowl. 745 00:38:09,328 --> 00:38:11,247 We've been talking about vulnerabilities. 746 00:38:11,247 --> 00:38:12,498 We've been talking about U.S. 747 00:38:12,498 --> 00:38:15,960 trafficking and the demand and how it all works together. 748 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,713 And again, we're having these conversations 749 00:38:18,713 --> 00:38:23,718 that are very difficult because we want to start the conversations 750 00:38:23,718 --> 00:38:26,846 that then happen in your homes and in your lives. 751 00:38:26,846 --> 00:38:30,933 And we want to help rally together for this movement 752 00:38:30,933 --> 00:38:35,396 to stop human trafficking and stop sexual exploitation. 753 00:38:35,396 --> 00:38:41,027 So thank you for joining us on the Voices for Freedom anti-trafficking podcast. 754 00:38:41,027 --> 00:38:44,697 I'm here with my co-host, Matt, and we just are so grateful for 755 00:38:44,697 --> 00:38:47,700 you guys for showing up for these conversations. 756 00:38:47,783 --> 00:38:48,993 Thanks for listening. 757 00:38:48,993 --> 00:38:50,703 Did you enjoy this episode? 758 00:38:50,703 --> 00:38:55,249 If so, please leave us a review and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. 759 00:38:55,249 --> 00:38:57,543 If you have ideas for future episodes, 760 00:38:57,543 --> 00:39:01,839 email us at voicesforfreedom@ourrescue.org. 761 00:39:01,839 --> 00:39:04,884 Lastly, we encourage you to join the fight. 762 00:39:04,884 --> 00:39:09,138 Make a difference today by donating at ourrescue.org. 763 00:39:09,138 --> 00:39:14,977 Or text PODCAST to 855-944-5646. 764 00:39:14,977 --> 00:39:21,317 Again, that number is 855-944-5646. 765 00:39:21,317 --> 00:39:25,237 Be sure to join us next week as I interview Lieutenant John Haning, 766 00:39:25,237 --> 00:39:29,450 one of the handlers of our amazing ESD K9s. 767 00:39:29,450 --> 00:39:33,829 Be sure to watch us on our YouTube channel to actually see this amazing dog. 768 00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:35,831 You won't want to miss it. Join us then.